Curse

Orbberius · Jul 07, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

N/E is best for MM because of glyph of renewal and verata's sac. Flesh golem isn't that amazing and does the same amount of dmg as the other guys just slower. He can take a beating. If your monk or rit is doing his/her job that shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

PvE is all arggo control and nothing more. You can win with anything you bring long as you have decent heals and know how to control the arggo.

Taking that same attitude to PvP will get you kicked from teams or turned down. So yes it does matter if its PvP or PvE. PvP it matters what you bring. PvE it doesn't matter as long as you don't leeroy every group you see.

N/E? Almost nobody uses Verata's Sac anymore. Anyway, congrats on telling someone who was asking for a good necro secondary to go as a mesmer. It doesn't seem like you have anything to contribute to this thread. I don't even know why you posted, except maybe to congratulate yourself on picking mesmer or something???? It's really a mystery why you felt compelled to post the crap you did.

Anyway, initially I would definitely pick N/Mo. This way you can pack in some self-heals and you can heal your minions as a minion-master. Once you do get Spiteful Spirit, you will be able to change secondaries at will anyway, so you can change to mes when you need to.

Divinus Stella · Jul 07, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

N/E is best for MM because of glyph of renewal and verata's sac. Flesh golem isn't that amazing and does the same amount of dmg as the other guys just slower. He can take a beating. If your monk or rit is doing his/her job that shouldn't be an issue in the first place.

PvE is all arggo control and nothing more. You can win with anything you bring long as you have decent heals and know how to control the arggo.

Taking that same attitude to PvP will get you kicked from teams or turned down. So yes it does matter if its PvP or PvE. PvP it matters what you bring. PvE it doesn't matter as long as you don't leeroy every group you see.

You seem to be pretty sure that necro is useless in pvp, for most popular mes and nec builds they act as utility, often carrying an ele secondary for WB speed or wards, they act as healing in many spirit based builds and as we all know they act as healing in IWAY, any type of necro based holding build uses soul reaping to power the healing, mesmers work well as orders in ranger spike but i cant think of many other areas where a mesmer primary works better.

But all this is rather offtopic as the OP was asking for the most useful necromancer secondary not a flawed argument on pve being easy and necros being useless.

Skuld · Jul 07, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Monk for PvE

Lil Pips · Jul 07, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

My friend is a Rt/N and it's a great combo. He can be a minion master with Spawning Power bumped up and his army is amazingly survivable. Boon of creation is a great spell for MM's also. He has a lot of options too as far as healing them goes; and for the seemingly omnipresent enchantment removal nowadays, weapon spells and urns so far are (more or less) unstoppable.

LifeInfusion · Jul 07, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

*/mo is the best in PvE period.

When you're in a group, how many have monk secondaries?

60-90%

By your logic sundering is the best because so many people use it and mesmers have no use.
The reason why it is logical to go /Mo or /Rt, if you don't use your secondary, is for the ability to res. That's it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadlyjunk

You know, I've actually seen someone do this. Funny thing was he brought animate bone fiend, so as soon as he had dp he couldn't cast it any more...

Well guess what, as a monk I saw a warrior/necro using FRENZY and animate bone minions...it wasn't pretty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil Pips

My friend is a Rt/N and it's a great combo. He can be a minion master with Spawning Power bumped up and his army is amazingly survivable. Boon of creation is a great spell for MM's also. He has a lot of options too as far as healing them goes; and for the seemingly omnipresent enchantment removal nowadays, weapon spells and urns so far are (more or less) unstoppable.

Well if you don't notice, lvl 18 minions have higher armor than lvl12-14 minions. The armor, damage, and health scales with the level so therefore your friend has a slightly skewed concept of minions. Also, if you are running MM you don't have that much room for weapon spells and urn spells because you need to use BoTM and healing skills.
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To the OP: anything that isn't melee range will suffice. Don't go /Warrior or /Assassin because most if not all of the skills will have no bearing on a ncromancer's effectiveness.

I'd recommend Mesmer for hexing, removal of enchants/hexes. I typically run blood/FoC spike or SS Curses and it works well to have arcane echo and some fillers like Shatter Hex or Inspired Hex.

Monk is arguably better for MM though. I don't run MM often so I wouldn't really have that much of a say on that. Heal Area for the self heal + heal for minions in conjunction ith BotM is great.

Ritualist might work, and the ressing ability is a plus. However, the skills need a bit more attribute devotion than monks' heal area. You only need 7 or 8 attribute for a 100 point heal. Rt skilsl liek Soothing Memories and Mend Body and Soul only give you 50ish health at 7 or 8 attribute so keep that in mind.

Blackhawk · Jul 07, 2006, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Well guess what, as a monk I saw a warrior/necro using FRENZY and animate bone minions...it wasn't pretty.

Thats nothing, I've just seen an "Assassin LFG - I am Minion Master" in Arborstone.

Nothing other than a Necro Primary who knows what he/she's doing with half a clue about how minions work relating to aggro control is a "proper" MM as far as I'm concerned, and trust me there's now some right idiots about since Factions came out.

I'll second LifeInfusions suggestions regarding 2nd profs

Pick Me · Jul 07, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

For me, N/Me all the way.

I have a N/Me and a Rit/N.

N/Mo is good for removing hexes and a hard rez
N/Rit is good for having spirits and a hard rez
N/W is good for stances
N/R is good for stances
N/E is good for glyphs
N/A is good for .... running (in truth, I'm not sure about this combo)

N/Me is good for stances, health degen, removing hexes, energy management, Condition spreader, shut downs. The only thing bad is the lack of a hard rez.

What about MMs? Are you telling me that a Necro is hopless without healing touch/orison/healing breeze/heal area?

Blood Renewal at level 3 - 6 is good.

Don't knock Verata's Sacrifice. I bring it when I have some travelling to do. If you use it during a battle, bad mistake. Use it before or after battles. Don't spam BotM, you'll die.

holden · Jul 07, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Ive never seen a Me/N SS Mes or Me/N MM Mes.

maybe you've never played a mesmer. i run SS with my primary mesmer more than not. not in pvp mind you but in pve for sure. with arcane echo and 10 or 11 in fastcasting i 'messhitup'. he'd be a bad MM however.

pve is predictable as hell and twicky is right, bring whatever...if you draw aggro right you'll have no problems.

anywho i'd agree with MM, monk secondary is very helpful. but n/mesmer is better all around and mesmer/necro is superior to necro in general. imo of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

You seem to be pretty sure that necro is useless in pvp

im sure they are. the necro is king of pve but just worthless in pvp. cast times are just too slow.

lapsus · Jul 08, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Idk I like the N/E combo because if you go blood and fire you can throw a few quick drain spells and then pull out meteor shower or firestorm. This lets you do like 50+ damage with flare and drain around 60 health. my old build was something like this:
blood: 12+1+1
fire: 12
sould reap: whats left

Life siphon
unholy feast
vamp touch/barb sig
Well Of Blood
Firestorm
meteor shower/meteor
flare

It aint perfect but its a change from SS or MM which is a good thing

Samuel Dravis · Jul 09, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I play N/Mo most of the time (for protection spells and res, never have needed Heal Area for minions), and if I'm doing SS I do N/Me. That is all.

>.>

Avarre · Jul 09, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Ive never seen a Me/N SS Mes or Me/N MM Mes.

You've never seen me!

N/Me for UW 2-3man, N/Mo for all else.

Undead Preacher · Jul 09, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

my personal is N/W... yea thats right

I will be posting my meleemancer build and guide very soon...

Undead Preacher · Jul 09, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

my personal is N/W... yea thats right

I will be posting my meleemancer build and guide very soon...

Blackhawk · Jul 09, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I started out as a N/W, can be lots of fun and surprises a lot of Warriors, I look forward to your Meleemancer Build & Guide Undead Preacher

Raziel665 · Jul 10, 2006, 10:07 AM // 10:07

/Mo is a good way to go, especially for minions.
Heal area is a good and is a nice self heal, I usually follow BotM with it when moving. Use Heal Party when you gain energy from stuff that sadly doesnt leave a corpse and cast Dwayna's Sorrow on your minions before battle. Dwayna's Sorrow is the reason I dont even consider going /E or /R for MM anyway. But /R still has some things going for it.
You can also take a hard rez, but that goes for /Rt too these days.

Kali Magdalene · Jul 10, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbberius

N/E? Almost nobody uses Verata's Sac anymore. Anyway, congrats on telling someone who was asking for a good necro secondary to go as a mesmer. It doesn't seem like you have anything to contribute to this thread. I don't even know why you posted, except maybe to congratulate yourself on picking mesmer or something???? It's really a mystery why you felt compelled to post the crap you did.

Anyway, initially I would definitely pick N/Mo. This way you can pack in some self-heals and you can heal your minions as a minion-master. Once you do get Spiteful Spirit, you will be able to change secondaries at will anyway, so you can change to mes when you need to.

I agree with the above advice, and I agree that Twicky Kid is coming out of left field.

I've noticed that some PVPers in Guild Wars like to post about PVE being meaningless and without skill. I can't tell if they're trying to impress people or chase them away from PVP.

Also, giving the horrible advice about Glyph of Renewal, Flesh Golem, and picking Elementalist? Ouch. N/E is workable, and GoR does mean you can use Verata's about 66% of the time (10 seconds up, five seconds down), but Blood of the Master is reliable and only needs a self-heal to keep it going. The N/E will still require the self-heal with Verata's.

LouAl · Jul 12, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by The truth itself

*/mo is the best in PvE period.

When you're in a group, how many have monk secondaries?

60-90%

lol funny logic there..."Everyone does it = best"

Also, I would diagree that mes is a better primary (my FAVORITE primary is Mes). It makes it much more difficult to spam animate XXX or Spiteful when you don't get energy from stuff dying. Also, if you do the math on how much higher your dmg output is with 16 in and attribute vs only 12 it REALLY doesn't make sense.

For example: at Curses 12 SS does 29 dmg for 18 seconds (approx 400 dmg against one foe with avg attack speed of 1.33)
at Curses 16 SS does 37 dmg for 21 seconds (approx 600 dmg against one foe with avg attack speed of 1.33)

try multiplying that for multiple enemies and see where you end up on which is better...the fact that you can cast SS in approx 1.25 seconds with a Me/N doesn't really make up any ground against the lvl 16 in curses.

To answer the original question, I picked /me because I really hate not having interrupts, but I think you could do well with any/all depending on your play style.